chaos,

In TX, what are they looking for?

V/R

Anything that is taught to officers in TX has to be approved by the "Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and Education"...T.C.L.E.O.S.E. And these guys will not give their blessing on anything that is "too realistic". They are afraid that it will cause officers to be too aggressive. Most DT instructors stick with the old school tactics that really realy on some sort of cooperation by the suspect. Fake wrist locks and forceful "arm bars" that dont work on children, much less hardened, violent, sociopaths that are determined to kill you with your own side arm.

The S.P.E.A.R. system, Krav Maga, F.I.G.H.T., or anything else reality based will never make it past them. Unless.....you find an instructor that will send in an outline that meets their requirements and then let you teach what you want.

Agreed.
I learned rather quickly that a 5'8 240 LB solid muscle perp. who's on PCP will be nearly impossible to put in an arm-bar.
Sad part is, my dept. expects us to actually try that before Taser!

V/R

ksleo wrote:

Agreed. I learned rather quickly that a 5'8 240 LB solid muscle perp. who's on PCP will be nearly impossible to put in an arm-bar. Sad part is, my dept. expects us to actually try that before Taser! V/R

Only three things work on a suspect that is high on PCP....choke, Taser or bullet to the head. Anything else will get you and your partners hurt. Sadly for most agencies these three use of force applications fall under deadly force on the Use of Force policy. I was fortunate to work for an agency that allowed the Carotid Restraint at the non-lethal level which allowed us to use it on suspects that did not comply.......needless to say I used it all the time.

We used it but we called it a "cross ventricle restraint". Now, in TX you better be justified in using deadly force before grabbing someone by the neck in any manner. If you understand the physics behind the human bodies ability to move, you can control them without causing serious bodily injury...I didnt say that they wouldnt cause injury to themselfs by fighting against the "lock" that is applied. In our system we shoot for "body locks" as opposed to joint locks.

If the guy breaks a pair of handcuffs and continues the forward progression of the attack....a broken collarbone will be enough to keep him from trying that again. If he continues then spinning his "broken" side will usually cause the broken bone to lacerate an artery and finish the job....See, there is always a force continum...lol.

PCP is not an ideal situation variable in any circumstances.

Without a doubt the worst I've dealt with was a 240 LB, 5'9, all muscle brotha' who was not only on PCP but pissed at mom, who was there interfering the whole time. Did I mention this was on my birthday? LOL
I'm not kidding you dude, I smacked that guy in the calf with my PR-24 and he didn't even flinch. Taser dropped him like a rock, and when he hit the ground he landed on his face on the asphalt and split his own head open. That incident taught me the best place to Tase someone, the middle of the back with a 12" spread.

At my dept. Taser is the last tool for pre-deadly force. After that, blast em'.

V/R

Tasers are GRRRRRRREAT!!