To me, the body or mind reacts in accordance to:

* Prior training and/or experience.

* Current mental state or focus at time of situation. (read as were you ready, kinda ready or totally caught off-guard.....ie. SURPRISE)

* What transpires as the situation unfolds. (you know, what starts out as a small "Holy Shit" and moments later develops into "Mutha Fucker")

* How well you can make solid decisions and communicate / act as the situation unfolds (I read this as the "Freeze Factor" whether or not your able to move or conduct yourself with all the adrenaline pumping, fear or survival instinct as the hits the fan).

* Endurance....Both mental and physical. ( read this as how long can a person maintain as to how long the chaos is going on. You can also read this as "Breakdown"

Now these are just my own thoughts off the top of my head. Stress is a funny thing and affects everyone differently.

And Jody......I gave bullets anyways......it's just me.

What is the previous thread and my apologies for mis-reading your initial post...You seem a bit jaded that I replied with Ayoob's quote? I went through my course materials and text, and consolidated them into the response? If I was going to write an article, then I would reference the material?

Not jaded about anything, Chase. Anyone can quote someone else. What I was trying to do is get people to find knowledge and bring it back to the discussion (or type out their version of what they already know) in their own words.

Different perspectives on the same topic, as if we're all sitting around a table together with pizza and the libation of choice. Ayoob isn't there, so what Ayoob said really wouldn't count.

1) Fight or flight response

According to the information I've read, Fight or Flight is too vague. A very common technique used in the earlierer wars was Posturing. Although staying in the fight, the soldiers were in a sense flighting by not firing directly at their enemies but instead over them, or to the side.

Although that is a decision made in the mind, and could be argued as psychological, studies show that there is an abstract element naturally in the human body making it reluctant to harm another human being.

I consider it to be a spiritual thing, which would definitely not be psychological.

Posturing was used more than fight or flight all the way up to the twentieth century when SLA Marshall discovered that the only way to overcome this physical reluctance is through psychological conditioning and more realistic training.

V/R

I truely believe that the amount of stress you can take without any physiological affects is determined by the amount of decompression time you are aloud. During my time with 82nd versus time with the big boys. I saw alot more PTSD and combat stress disorders within the "regular army" units. The comradery you build within a smaller tight knit group vs a infantry platoon...coming back to a firebase..police calls, base security and so on, vs coming back to your safe house and relaxing.
I understand the need for what has to be done, but if the bigger units could take a page out of the book from the other "units", I think we would have a more relaxed well sustained fighting unit. I'm sure some of you guys could say the same thing about LE units and situations.

Just me 2 cents.

ABNDOC,

I can see how that would be. The average soldier, according to "On Killing", reaches exhaustion after only 60 days, and their combat readiness begins to decline lower and lower after that.

For me, when I was in a LRS unit (pretty tight knit) OCONUS, I loved my duty and towards the end I was just ready to come home. But in an active-duty MP unit even CONUS, I was fed-up by the time I got out. The MP unit was really stressful, thus taking a toll on my body. But when LRS, we did our mission, came home, and...well....party time!! Great stress relief!

V/R

How would you address the issue of PTSD and lingering effects that still manifest in the physiological realm, such as hyper-vigilance?

OK...here is my input. I may be sharing too much, but I have been called hyper-vigilant...not a diagnosis...but it was an observation made by a professional counselor.

The hyper vigilance was something that never caught the attention of my concience mind. I seem to have a disliking of public places, not because of anxiety, but because of my outlook on society itself. I have had three incidents, during my career, where I have had to defend my life. One attempted "gun grab", a knife attack and an exchange of gunfire in NOLA. All I was required to do after the fact, on each incident, was to write a report and transport the prisoner, except in NOLA. All that was done there was to secure the area and call the local PD. At that time, the general concensu was "No body, no report." The policy with my PD only called for counseling after an "officer involved shooting". We really didnt receive a policy on violent altercations from the small company, out of TX, I contracted with.

As a result, I had to deal with the stress of those incidents on my own with no real "tools" to fight the PTSD. I never really felt the effects of the stress, but, according to this counselor, it caused an ongoing physiological issue in relating to society as a whole. I maintained "code orange" for about 6 yrs. And the crazy thing is, I did it conciencly, but didnt know why. I physically made myself stay in a state of readiness that took a HUGE toll on me. I think had I been given an oportunity to "defuse" after each incident, I would have had a different outlook. Its wasnt a real problem, It was just very annoying to my family and friends sometimes. I was a bit of a hermit and didnt really interact with people that much. It was a little more than an average dislike of being in public. It could make me very irritable and "snappy" at times.

I have since talked out my incidents with someone and have been given the advice I needed 6 years ago. I have a very different attitude now. Im still very vigilant, maybe more so than most LEOs or MILs, but that is just part of my personality and training, but I dont drive my wife nuts any more.

Now you are probably saying...."Hey, this is psycological, not physiological", but the physical stress from those incidents caused the hyper vigilance to set in and remain for nearly 6 years, without a psycological stimulus form a trained professional. Now I sleep better and can enjoy myself in public....and at home. According to this counselor, the physical effects can last a lifetime without some sort of diffusion process after the incident. Which can be as simple as having a beer and reliving and talking about the incident with a friend later.

Hope this keeps in line with the topic.